Clash Rants: Mary Sues and Gary Stews

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Clash Rants: Mary Sues and Gary Stews Empty Clash Rants: Mary Sues and Gary Stews

Post by ShadyClash on Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:51 am

Hey everybody! Now I've always noticed some repetitive things in the Sonic fan community that just really... Gets overdone. Now you may have already heard some of the things I'm going to rant about and you may even do some of them, so I'm going to say this right now: These rants are purely for venting purposes, and are in no way intended for any users here and are not meant to offened or insult anyone in anyway. 

And now, here it is.


1. Forced Developement.

This really bites me. Someone will push aside all other characters and try and make themselves look like a gem in a pile of rocks, and if nothing goes their way they will change the entire setting and abrupt the whole story if the spotlight drifts away from them even for a TINY bit. You should only become more rounded out by the flow of stories if you let it naturly happen, don't try and become a control freak and make your self a.. well... Mary Sue or Gary Stew.

2. ...Hedge-Foxes..? [Fucking Really?]

It was creative and new at first, but now it's just flat-out awful. I'm NOT saying that all hedge-foxes are bad, I'm saying that they just have awful reasons for being a that way. Are they artificial? Are they magic? Shape-Shifters? NOPE. All we get is a hedgehog and a fox falling in love and making what seems to a hybrid that could never happen. Now some out there have valid reasons for being that, and usually turn out to be great characters. Sadly, I don't see many of those. Now, apparently, these totally creative Hedge-Foxes can run like Sonic AND fly like Tails! ITS SO ORIGINAL IM HAVING EYE AND EARGASAMS THINKIN ABOUT IT. No. Stop. That's just a discreet way to try and make yourself better than other characters. Just stop.

Remember, these are not intended to offend anyone here. You may post your own rants below, just keep in mid that these are my opinions, you don't have to like them, but you have to respect them.

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Post by Caliburn on Tue Mar 25, 2014 12:47 pm

Whilst I agree with both of your points to some kind of extent, hedgefoxes...

Artificial creation is overdone to such an extent it's more overused than hedgefox hybrids are. I myself have done both of those things in my roleplaying history, but honestly, a hedgehog and a fox mating to create a hedgefox is more sensemaking. (I have a hedgecoon demi-god character, sue me.) Sure, that would NEVER happen in real life. ...But neither would any of the stuff that's going on on the site in the first place. It's a game series made to be epic, starring a blue hedgehog. Not a simulation.

Also any character coming remotely close to outshining Sonic's speed is a no nonononono, regardless of species. Not tolerated. Sonic is the fastest thing alive, end of story. 


Also I believe the term you are looking for is spotlight hoggers. ...Forced Development? How is taking up the spotlight "forcing" development at all? Regardless of how RPing goes, your character always develops. Always.

A Mary Sue, IIRC, is the most stereotypical, perfect character type possible. Not someone that hogs the spotlight and forces development. Development is a totally different thing.

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Post by Knuxtiger4 on Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:16 pm

I actually used to talk about them quite a bit since I used to run a character critiquing blog with a friend of mine.  Long story short we actually avoided using those terms to describe characters we were critiquing because let's be honest, there better way to critique a character then just being all "Lawl your character is a Mary-Sue/Gary-Stu!"  Getting on track though...

1. Forced Developement.

This really bites me. Someone will push aside all other characters and try and make themselves look like a gem in a pile of rocks, and if nothing goes their way they will change the entire setting and abrupt the whole story if the spotlight drifts away from them even for a TINY bit. You should only become more rounded out by the flow of stories if you let it naturly happen, don't try and become a control freak and make your self a.. well... Mary Sue or Gary Stew.

I believe you have your terms confused on your first point.  Forced development in my eyes is when something happens to a character where they have to adapt to it.   That there's no way from them to avoid such a plot point that they are "forced" to deal with the outcome, sorta like a cause and effect thing.  For example, Character A had his memories taken away, he would now have to adapt to life without his memories or work to try t get them back, i.e. "forced development".  Some people call it character development depending on who you ask.

Now what you are describing is "Center of Attention".  This is where the creator of the character basically shoves their character into the "spotlight" where they MUST be the center of attention.  They also as you mention, get mad when it doesn't go their way and will try everything to make it go their way, thus trying to be a control freak.  I have noticed with people like them that their other characters have super poor development because they are so transfixed on one character instead of work on everyone as a whole.

2. ...Hedge-Foxes..? [Fucking Really?] It was creative and new at first, but now it's just flat-out awful. I'm NOT saying that all hedge-foxes are bad, I'm saying that they just have awful reasons for being a that way. Are they artificial? Are they magic? Shape-Shifters? NOPE. All we get is a hedgehog and a fox falling in love and making what seems to a hybrid that could never happen. Now some out there have valid reasons for being that, and usually turn out to be great characters. Sadly, I don't see many of those. Now, apparently, these totally creative Hedge-Foxes can run like Sonic AND fly like Tails! ITS SO ORIGINAL IM HAVING EYE AND EARGASAMS THINKIN ABOUT IT. No. Stop. That's just a discreet way to try and make yourself better than other characters. Just stop.

Ah yesssss, hybrids. They are a rather touchy subject since I know a lot of people like them or have hybrid characters.

Personally those Hedgefoxes, Hedgechidna, etc, etc that I see floating around online were never original to begin with.  I can say I've only seen a few that were very cleverly designed but I really mean I've seen very few.  When it came to critiquing Sonic characters, I would tell people to look up their character species and check their mix.  Realistically a hedgehog and a fox would NOT be able to breed to produce an viable offspring, they aren't in the same family class (Hedgehogs are Erinaceidae while Foxes are Canindae (Vulpes) ) so it would be impossible.  Animals like ligers, zorses, wolfdogs and what not can happen because these animals parents were in the same family class as them (Feline, Equine and Canine).

When we were critiquing characters we would go with what the Archie Verse does which is whatever gender the offspring is, they would take that parent's species.  

Now not going to rule out that I've seen people do clever takes on hybrids where to be honest, they can probably get away with just calling it one species.  I'll note I had one character I critiqued that was a Wolverine/Badger hybrid which is design was so well done that I told the creator she could just probably call him either or.  Some people I've seen them make their character one species but throw in subtle hints of their other parent's species.  So say our character is a spawn of a Coyote/Tiger pairing... I've seen people make it look like a coyote but give it the color or stripes of a tiger to give a nod to its linage.

Really those are the type of hybrids I have no issues with.  Really it a matter of being clever about your design.  Its possible, I've seen people do that.  But let's be honest, we're talking about a universe where we have a hedgehog that can run fast and fox that flies, pretty sure my thoughts on hybrids would be invalid here. 

But that's my thoughts.

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